"daveparks" <daveparks_00@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35747f25-7e13-4076-bf51-3d51aa6cc5c0@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 21, 9:01 am, "Newk Indofman" <newk.indof...@lovesyou.org>
> wrote:
>> "daveparks" <daveparks...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:b1af5178-8082-4b00-8ba8-ede089e7c70b@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 20, 4:32 pm, "Newk Indofman" <newk.indof...@lovesyou.org>
>> > wrote:
>> >> "daveparks" <daveparks...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:af549750-e347-4234-820e-6a4a7d0bee9b@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Jul 20, 9:30 am, "Newk Indofman" <newk.indof...@lovesyou.org>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> "daveparks" <daveparks...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >> >>news:804c049d-69a8-4266-8fe7-2e726fd25e8b@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> >> > On Jul 18, 5:12 pm, "Newk Indofman" <newk.indof...@lovesyou.org>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> "daveparks" <daveparks...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >> >> >>news:2d1ee890-a929-4e39-9f6a-f60ebe6060ec@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> >> >> > I didn't ask if a swift execution was more humane that
>> >> >> >> > throwing
>> >> >> >> > her
>> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> > a dumpster - I asked, if a swift execution was more humane
>> >> >> >> > that
>> >> >> >> > forcibly confining someone in a small cell for 40yrs?
>>
>> >> >> >> There is an easy answer to that, is there?
>>
>> >> >> > So you are for capital punishment?
>>
>> >> >> I meant to type, "there is *no* easy answer"
>>
>> >> >> No, in general I am opposed to capital punishment. However, a swift
>> >> >> execution is probably more "humane" than 40 years of torturous
>> >> >> isolation.
>>
>> >> > But if you're opposed to the DP 'and' consider sentencing the guilty
>> >> > to a life of forced confinement in a small cell as inhumane, what do
>> >> > you pose we do with someone like Atkins?
>>
>> >> I stated that as a hypothetical situation. I don't think that Atkins'
>> >> confinement or her sentence has been inhumane, especially after
>> >> reviewing
>> >> a
>> >> history of her life in prison. She should remain in prison until her
>> >> death.
>>
>> > So you don't believe in capital punishment but are accepting of it so
>> > long as it is swift - and you approve of life imprisonment, so long as
>> > it doesn't consist of years of "torturous isolation", in which case
>> > you're instead accepting of the swift execution?
>>
>> That's accurate -- in a simplistic, literalist kind of way.
>>
>> > Way to stand by that
>> > moral code of yours.
>>
>> I don't believe I stated what my moral code was.
>
> That hasn't stopped you from criticizing others who AFAICT have also
> not stated their moral codes; but in order to avoid any wrongful
> assumptions on my part, please do post your moral code as it pertains
> to the discussion.
How about: "Treat others as you want to be treated"?
>
>
>> I want to say that I
>> believe in mercy. Morality is a complex and gray area once you start
>> talking
>> about real situations.
>
> Well Atkins' case is the one of topic, and it is a very real
> situation. Do you believe she warrants mercy?
Yes. "Mercy" is something which we should try to apply to everyone. It
should be a guiding prinicple, not something we award or deny based on our
personal feelings. That doesn't mean she should be released. I think she's
been shown a great deal of mercy, in the way of her health care and by the
life she has been allowed to live behind bars.
>
>
>> > It would seem that you're against what prison system is supposed to
>> > represent, *punishment* of the guilty.
>>
>> You're putting words in my mouth, with absolutely no nuance. There are no
>> easy, one-size-fits-all answers.
>
> I understand, which is why I was careful to qualify my comment with
> the verb 'seem' - and I'm just trying to understand your position,
> which "seems" contradictory. Against the 'death penalty' and 'life
> imprisonment' with caveats?
>
>
>> Prison systems in the US have two aims, which tend to clash. It is
>> supposed
>> to be punishment, but it is also supposed to be, at least in theory,
>> rehabilitative. Depending on the individual institutions, there are lots
>> of
>> opportunities for prisoners to get involved in positive activities. And
>> there are lots of examples of that.
>
> I disagree - IMO the prison system exists to punish and deter criminal
> activity; there are plenty of other avenues available for the
> rehabilitation (including lesser states of 'punishment/incarceration';
> fines, parole, 2-3 strikes, city jails, county, state/Fed pens, etc.)
> of those who are ultimately found guilty and imprisoned in this
> country. Prison isn't IMO a place for rehab.
>
>
>> Even so, I agree that Atkins should not
>> ever be paroled, given the nature of her crimes.
>
> I agree - but IMO the originally jury-imposed sentence of execution
> should have been carried out decades ago. I give a rat's ass whether
> she's rehabilitated, found Jesus, saved others, or cured cancer - what
> she and the other sick animals did to their victims warranted IMO a
> public execution.
>
> At this point, quite honestly, unless you have something of real
> interesting to add, I really feel Susan Atkins doesn't warrant any
> more of my time or attention.
Even with capital punishment, America has the highest rate of incarceration
in the world. Something's not right.
>
> Thanks, NI.
Thanks to you for being so patient. I appreciate it. I don't pretend to be
an expert on any of this -- I just have an idealistic streak that won't let
go.
